Bornakk say what? BM Hunter changes on hold not forgotten
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I saw a post today that got me thinking. Back on December 21st Bornakk responded to a question about Spirit Beasts receiving a buff. In reality this thread was really more about making the Beast Mastery spec raid viable. (I really hate using the term viable. It’s not like BM is a death sentence. And now, being a BM hunter won’t put you on top of the meters. But I’m sure you’ll do enough DPS to down bosses. Alright.. Alright, /rant off)
I’m sure some of the Beast Master hunters out there probably feel that this is what’s really needed. Buff up Spirit Beasts and all will be right with the world. Well, Bornakk gave us some insight on what they think is the real issue, and buffing Spirit Beast isn’t the answer.
Bornakk’s first response sets the record straight that they feel that the Wolf’s Furious Howl is actually overpowered. (Read: Incoming Nerf ahead!)
“The spirit beasts are not the real issue from our perspective. We this spirit beasts are doing fine and we don’t want them to be the only choice for BM hunters since speccing BM should give a player more choices for pets (ideally) and not less.
The problem mainly lies with the wolf just being overpowered. We did consider nerfing them for patch 3.3 but decided that the nerf to pretty much all hunter PvE dps was not worth the benefit of providing more options for pets. Keep in mind though that we have and will continue to make unpopular or even controversial nerfs if we feel they are a benefit for the game.” – Bornakk
He had me there when he was talking about how the wolf is overpowered and nerfing them would nerf all hunters. But wait, Bornakk said nothing about the true question. Shouldn’t the Beast Mastery talent allow us to get something more for our money than just taming a cool looking pet? Yes, I know we get 2 extra pet talent points, but that’s not a whole heck of alot overall.
I mean if we’re willing to give up the “WHAM! BAM! Thank you mam!” excitement that come with achieving jaw dropping crits as Marksman or Survival, shouldn’t the fact that Elvis can instantly grow mean and red to twice his size be worth some extra face nom noms?
Well, it seems someone else thought that same thing. Especially since we see that the next point Bornakk responds to is just that question. What about making BM raid viable?
“It may not be great for raiding but is still good for leveling while both Marks and Surv are competitive for raiding. I wouldn’t expect any big changes for now.” – Bornakk
Now here’s where things get twisted. You might have read on some other sites out there that Bornakk is saying that Blizzard has decided that BM is a permanent leveling spec. That’s just not the truth. There are two little words at the end of that quote that people just refuse to remember. “..for now.“
See there’s this whole other expansion that Blizzard is probably furiously trying to get out the door. You know Cataclysm, the one that changes the world as we know it. The one that removes mana from hunters! The one that forces Blizzard to rething everything about our class? But don’t take my word on it. Bornakk basically says the same thing.
“We’d love to have every spec viable for all aspects of the game, it just rarely turns out that way since balancing can be pretty tricky. At this stage in the game we aren’t planning to make many (if any) big changes to classes since we are already working on doing just that for Cataclysm so that’s why I wouldn’t expect much in the near future.” – Bornakk
See, there’s just no reason to put a ton of work in a product that’s already at its end of life. Yeah, that means that if you’re running around using the Dungeon Finder to get in Random Heroics as Beast Mastery you’ll have to put up with the DPS 1337’s telling you to get a life and respec. (If that’s so, why are the bosses dying, we’re not wiping and I’m still #1 or #2 DPS? hmm??)
Of course, people took these posts and starting running wild. Saying that Blizzard was going to nerf Wolves to the ground and leave Beast Mastery as just a leveling spec. Yeah, I know craziness, but that’s the internet for ya.
Well, Bornakk decided to sum up his thoughts in one final post (Well final as far as the Official Forums go. You never know when someone decides to necro an old thread.)
“I know some of you were reading into my comments a bit much so I’ll try and explain things a little more.
The wolf is overpowered when compared to the other available pets, mostly because it buffs the master. Buffing all of the pets to that level would require a number of different changes to different pets and the chance that one of those buffs would be too much or not enough is reasonably high. When you have say 10 or more things all roughly equal and then one that is outside of that group, the one that’s outside is called an outlier. Defining it as the new normal isn’t smart game design and just like we do with classes, we are likely to nerf the single thing at the top than buff all the others.
It might not be possible to ever get the pets completely identical (see comments below), so very competitive raiders will probably still only take the best one. But if the best one is only slightly ahead of the others, then it will feel more acceptable to some players to run with the pet they like. For most players, improving their own game will have a larger effect than picking the “best in slot” pet if they are comparable.
As far as the Spirit Beasts are concerned, there are several reasons why they would make a bad “best” pet. There are not very many options to choose from and all of them require “farming” a rare spawn that is more of a testament to blind luck than any kind of player skill. As we said before, there is no advantage to having a wider spectrum of pets to choose from if there is only one right choice.
We have talked about literally making all the pet families identical and letting the player just pick one based on looks. That certainly homogenizes the game quite a bit, which is why we haven’t done it, but it would ultimately allow pet choice to be cosmetic.
In the end, yes, we do want to get BM competitive with Survival and Marks. We even did some buffs in 3.3 to help them get there but the reason for my comments earlier is that we’d rather have two viable raiding specs than just one so Hunters as a whole are not in terrible shape. Eventually we do plan to get all 3 there. Just remember that when players obsess about 1% differences in dps you can understand why that task is pretty gigantic. There are probably more raiding BM hunters in 3.3 than in 3.2 and probably a lot more than there are Subtlety rogues (sorry for the example rogues, but you/we know it’s true). It’s far from a dead spec.” – Bornakk
In case that’s just too much of a wall of text for you. Let’s summ it up this way.
- Wolves are overpowered because they buff the master.
- Giving the rest of the pets a similar ability doesn’t make good design sense. Better to nerf the Wolf and get it in line.
- No matter what Blizzard does, competitive raiders will always reduce the game to numbers and lists of Best in Slot items and pets.
- Because of the limited ability to get spirit beasts, they don’t make good BiS pets. Mostly because of the “luck” involved in getting them. (along with other reasons)
- Blizzard seems resistent to the idea of homogenizing all pets and letting the player determine the skills.
- Blizzard wants all Beast Mastery to be viable with Marksmanship and Survival but feels it’s as close as it can get in 3.3.
- Blizzard feels that it’s okay to raid as Beast Mastery today, but it’s the players that’s holding it back.
- Players feel that the smallest differences in specs are bigger than they really are. Even if the difference was only 1% we’d see people decide a top one and declare it “best”.
Well, I think that sums everything up in 8 tidy points.
In the end the sky isn’t falling. You can raid with Beast Mastery and even your spirit beast. Just don’t whine and complain that you’re not crushing the meters because it’s by design. However, if the bosses are falling and your guild isn’t wiping constantly, be happy.
I mean that’s what it’s all about right? Killing things, getting phat lootz and everyone heading off to the local tavern for a mug of Thunderbrew’s afterwards? Yeah, I think it is also.
Eddie Carrington “aka Brigwyn” is the owner/operator of The Hunting Lodge. He created The Hunting Lodge blog and Hunting Lodge Forums in response to players requesting a safe spot to talk about their class. Don’t forget to join Eddie on The Hunting Lodge Podcast that you can find broadcasting live on Ustream each Sunday at 11pm Eastern/8pm Pacific.
I have played a Hunter for that long now I just come to accept nerfs and not really get too heated about it. After all it means you get to play a variety of different specs, In Vanilla it was MM, Burning crusade it was BM and then in Northrend, following the great hunter nerf the weight was shifted to SV. I personally prefer BM spec, following the implimentation of the pet abilities and trees I really found alot of love for my class but im a sucker for the big numbers so I only ever do Dungeons in SV and leave my dailies to BM.
As for the spoke about buffs to Spirit Beasts, I know they cant do it, fall all of the reasons pointed out in your article and my head tells me that is right, but my heart wants them to be so much better than everything else. I have two Spirit Beasts, Loque’nahak and Skoll and unfortunately that is where I will have to stop because my stable is full. Five stable slots is not nearly enough but Blizzard would probably have to tripple that before I would be happy.
my biggest worry about Hunters is not which spec is getting the buffs or nerfs its rather what state we will be in following the Cataclysm changes, Im probably one of the few that thinks this but I wish they would just leave us as we are. I really enjoying playing a Hunter the way it is, I enjoy the rotations and I enjoy the specs. Im sure Blizzard will make it work but I hope I can get into it as much as I am now.
Finally, I’d just like to wish my fellow Hunters a merry christmas and I’d also like to say im really enjoying visiting the site, keep up the good work.
(Sorry for the long post, I started rambling again.)
One of the reasons that Bliz continues to change everything is to keep us coming back to the game.
If Bliz simply allowed the classes and specs to come to true “balance” and just left it there, we’d all get bored and leave the game. By constantly providing changes to specs and classes as well as to content they keep us happy and gaming. I for one welcome the change. Frankly, I think so much in WoW, while finally having achieved good balance, is getting stale.
I’m glad they’re reworking the azeroth content for Cataclysm and can’t wait to learn how to replay our class (and my 9 other alts) when it launches.
You’ve made an interesting point. All of these changes must be part of a grand design to keep us challenged. I’ve been known to say in the past that hunters may receive the most dramatic and frequent changes because we’re also the most theorycrafted of the classes.
Honestly, the only ones that seem to be worse at times might be druids. Hopefully we’ll help our Druid brethren out by being able to tame them and doing the thinking for them. >} bwahaha!
Hey Kelk!
No need to apologize! I love it when there’s some good thoughts in the comments. It’s much better than the “great post, keep it up” kinda stuff ya know what I mean?
You said you’re worried about what state we’ll be in after Cataclysm hits? I’m gonna guess that you’re talking about raid status.
Personally? I think we’re going to be more than okay. With every expansion, scratch that, every patch people are clammering that this is the end of hunter raiding.
But each time we see that it just isn’t true. Blizz does an awesome job at figuring out how to make each class unique enough to give us the desire to play it, but balanced so that none are left out in the cold.
Honestly? I can’t wait for Cataclysm. In so many ways it feels like a rebirth for the game. And think about it this way. Cataclysm + new class + new Dungeon finder? OMG! What could be better!!
I was sold on WoW because of the hunter class, the pet specific aspects of it. It resonated. I was content for a long time … then I began to raid more. Even in my awesomely accommodating guild (not one person would ever even remotely worry if I showed up BM) it’s important for each of us to contribute fully. That means no BM for raids.
What gets me going, probably more than it should, is that it went from one extreme to the other, and very, very far down the other side of the curve. I feel Bliz just can’t get the pet centric spec balanced in endgame and never will, which makes me nervous for the future design changes.
As for the SB debate … I got Loque a long time ago. I don’t want it to be best in slot, I want it to be equal. Again, why can’t they balance the pets in the BM tree? For the work, and yes luck, involved in getting a unique skin it should at least be equal to regular pets for the price of the points to get it.
I just sense a lack of concern and pretty much expect the BM tree to go away.