Being a BM Hunter is tougher today than MM in the past
The Hunting Lodge is a World of Warcraft Hunter community website. We’re here to help you improve and enjoy playing your hunter. If you don’t find what you’re looking for on the blog, make sure to check out the Hunting Lodge Forums. Also, make sure to listen to The Hunting Lodge Podcast
I’m a bit concerned about something. Maybe I’m alone or at the least in the minority. But I’m really getting concerned that there’s a bigger focus only on achieving the “Maximum DPS” than there is on playing the best you can and having fun.
Now, I’m not saying everyone has to be casual. And I’m not saying that being competitive is a bad thing. What I AM saying is that there seems to be a polarization happening within the WoW Community that I haven’t seen since the days of Black Temple.
For you that haven’t don’t know, The Hunting Lodge was created during what I like to call the heyday of raiding. Blizzard had realized that 25-man was really a solid hardcore raid size and was experimenting with creating 10mans. (Yes, this was during the beginning of Kharazhan.) The official forums were probably worse in some ways than they are today. You had hunters that were on top when WoW was originally released (Marksman Hunters) now being told they didn’t matter. The venom and hate was pretty unbearable. If you don’t believe me go ask Rilgon over on Stabilized Effort Scope. He’ll tell you what it was like before Marks and Survival hunters were the kings of DPS.
If anyone mentioned raiding as Marks they were immediately derided. I know it may be hard to believe, but there’s enough of us still around that can attest to that fact. Heck, that’s even what spurred me to start up The Hunting Lodge. See, there just wasn’t a haven for hunters that wanted to play the game well, but not be pigeon holed into any specific talent spec. So the Lodge and then the Lodge Forums were born.
My point being, is I’m starting to see the same kind of hate and derision against Beast Master hunters. All through Wrath of The Lich King it’s been touted that Beast Mastery was not a viable raiding spec. The DPS difference is highlighted time and time again. And time and time again we hear how hunters are required to achieve the best possible DPS, no matter what, in order to be viable and raid. That’s funny, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard the folks from Blizzard say that. Only bloggers, theorycrafters and podcasters and of course every mindless player that feel some instinctual need to bully other players.
But you know what’s interesting? Even during those turbulent BC days. Or even during the days of the Vanilla WoW when BM was known as being pretty much a PvP spec, have I perceived such animosity within our class. Part of me thinks it might be payback for the days when BM was king. (They were pretty cocky back then.) But that doesn’t explain all of it.
I’m concerned we’re going to see more and more players switch off and just walk away. No one wants to play or participate in a community they don’t feel is fun.
If you’re asking, “What can you do about it? They must out number us 3 or more to 1!” That’s true. They do seem to pretty vocal. But something tells me there’s a silent majority out there that really just wants to have fun. That a group of you that want to know how you can min/max your BM hunter without feeling ashamed. Or maybe you’re a Marksman hunter that doesn’t want to pursue an Armor Penetration build. And heaven forbid if your a Survival hunter that’s focusing on replenishment instead of DPS.
So take heart fellow hunters! You have an advocate! For as long as I’m playing, the Lodge will be here! We’ll keep the light on and remain spec agnostic. We may not be popular. But we do hope to be a voice of reason during a time when DPS Meters and GearScores seem to run roughshod over players having fun.
Eddie Carrington “aka Brigwyn” is the owner/operator of The Hunting Lodge. He created The Hunting Lodge blog and Hunting Lodge Forums in response to players requesting a safe spot to talk about their class. Don’t forget to join Eddie on The Hunting Lodge Podcast that you can find broadcasting live on Ustream each Sunday at 11pm Eastern/8pm Pacific.
Who told you that I was not pursuing an ArP MM build? That was suppose to be top secret. I guess the spirit beast is out of the bag now.
ROFL! The hunter community sees all. We’re everwhere. muahahah! lol
Beginning to wonder if I’ll need to dual-spec my hunter to avoid getting kicked from LFGs.
When I hear/read comments like this I find myself really conflicted. Part of me says no. Stand tall and be proud of the spec you’ve chosen. Yet, another part of me says to go for it. You might be pleasantly surprised.
In the end I’d have to listen to Shakespear’s advice that I mentioned a while back, “To thine own self be true.” So if you’re comfortable and feel it’s okay to dual spec, then by all means. If not, then stick to your guns and run with what you have the most fun with.
Look, I’m not comfortable with huntering at all – I’ve been away from it for a year, and am getting back into leveling my hunter after two revamps.
I have a Beast Mastery leveling spec I found, and I’m using it to relearn simple things like Misdirect. Besides, I like having a strong pet, and I don’t want to relearn the class *again* for raiding.
Well in that case. Then by all means stay BM.
I’m sure you’ll find groups that are fun to run with. As you can see Pike, Dash, and even myself have been fortunate.
Also, I won’t be switching to MM/SV anytime soon unless i really have to. Mostly because I know it’ll be more of a DPS loss since I run with the standard game interface and have only my old laptop.
Not the best setup for trying to time shots perfectly that’s for sure.
I’ve actually been denied access to pugs when they found out I was BM. It’s pretty ridiculous, and I think part of it comes from the fact that so many people are so focused on MM/Survival that they really don’t know how to effectively play a BM to maximize DPS. Thus, they write it off as the “bad spec.” You see the same thing in programming: PHP programmers look at .NET and think it’s “bad,” while .NET programmers look at PHP and think “haha, uncompiled scripts.” Meanwhile, there’s a good and bad way to use either one, and both are extremely effective in the right hands. That’s why I’d never dream of writing a PHP to .NET comparison (as a PHP guy), because my comparison simply wouldn’t be fair.
I was actually a little disappointed that the first Scattered shot post today on WoW.com essentially wrote off BM spec in the first couple paragraphs without any real support to back it up. I think as we see more players shifting back to BM for any number of reasons, primarily the cool pets, we’re also going to see a shift back toward acceptance and understanding of the spec.
As someone who plays 3 BM hunters, I’ve had the opportunity to test them against MM/Surv hunters in essentially three times the number of raids each week as I’ll typically raid with them individually, and I’ve found that not only is BM extremely effective with high end gear, but even at the low end BM is amazing compared to much better geared MM/surv hunters. It’s an extremely underrated spec, but hopefully as more blogs focus on the positives of the spec (including absolutely incredible DPS at nearly any gear level) we’ll see people warm up to it again.
Even before the Bestial wrath duration/dps change I thought BM was actually quite effective and didn’t need a buff, but the extra 10% plus the recent pet skill changes have made it incredibly powerful when played properly.
Great post, glad to see another hunter site giving BM props.
Well, let’s remember that Frost didn’t specifically say anything bad about BM hunters. Tho he did reinforce the ongoing thought that BM is not raid viable. Then again, that’s to be expected. Frost is known as being pro-maxDPS.
Now for you getting kicked out of groups. That’s what I’m talking about as it being worse than before. Before you might get called names or not find a group. But you weren’t kicked out typically.
Testing against other people to whom you may not be equally geared, skilled, or have equal technological capacity to (30 extra milliseconds of latency or another 5 FPS lower can cost a MM Hunter over 500 DPS, for example) is not a fair test of anything.
Yes, a great BM Hunter can beat a terrible MM or SV Hunter with better gear, but when you get into the upper echelons of Hunter-ing, it cannot hang. I guarantee you that you will not see a BM Hunter clear a strict DPS race like, say, Festergut 25 anytime soon.
But Rilgon you can also admit that the same player that has the latency issue might be better off playing as a Beast Master no?
And like I said, in the pure mathmatical race. It’s going to be MM/SV leading atm.
Depends. Would the loss that they’d incur going to BM be “less” than what they lose due to latency? Probably not.
This would be hard to actually test in the real world. But on a personal observation? I do seem to lose more DPS playing as Marks than I do as BM. And I really love the Marks play style. But that’s just me.
The weird thing is that DPS is not essential in most raid fights. It’s more about maneuverability, and last I checked, Surv spec has the worst dance moves… While BM relegates most of its DPS to a nigh-invulnerable (Avoidance) piece of fuzziness.
I’m going to assume you meant “The weird thing is that max-DPS is not essential in most raid fights.”
That being said, I’d tend to agree. I’m working on another post that I think will shed some light on this. In the meantime I’d recommend checking out Great Expectations: Hunter Raid Performance at The Hunter’s Mark. It’s an interesting read.
I still maintain I have yet to have a bad experience as BM across any server. The closest I’ve gotten is the occasional congratulatory whisper… never derogatory. Maybe it’s just me?
I also think that most of the BM hunters of the past, who are still playing, are now SV/MM. And if the pendulum were to swing back to BM tomorrow, guess who would all come running back? =P
I switched to survival from BM early on in Wrath when they made replenishment a semi-requirement for raiding. We do 10 man raids, and I was the only one in our core group of raiders to bring that buff. I grew to really like SV but I still miss the days of a big red pet.
Making a switch to support your raid isn’t a bad thing. Especially if you’re okay with it.
However, deriding and not supporting your fellow hunter because they choose to remain BM shouldn’t be accepted. IMHO
Back in the days of Vanilla and WoW I was known to say the same. Yes, I switched from MM to BM in BC. (Enough acronyms?) But at the same time, I always supported my MM brethren.
Heh, very true. I had meant to add more to that comment and didn’t get around to it, but we have another hunter who has remained steadfastly BM, even though we all know his DPS is taking a hit. But we don’t care. He’s a great guy, and a lot of fun to have on raids. And in the end, we kill the bosses anyway.
I’m with Pike here. I’ve been doing BM and BM only. I didn’t even pay for dual spec yet, mostly because I never have the cash. Everyone once in a while someone’ll try and educate me regarding the awesome power of MM or SV, but usually people don’t even look. Unless I have my sithilid pet out, no one would ever know.
That’s good to know Dash. Maybe it’s just my battle group or maybe it’s the level of instances I’m getting thrown into now. But I’m seeing it and I’m hearing more and more about players getting kicked or derided during randoms because they’ve chosen to raid BM.
Either way, I’m glad to hear there are some sane battle groups out there!
(Side note: Okay I had a bit of a OMG! Pike commented moment. I’m okay now.)
I think most of the most vocal and staunch MM/SV max-DPS hunters today were BM during BC. That I can agree. And I’m sure they’ll all come running back. When that happens, I guess I’ll again be the guy offering shelter to the abandoned MM/SV hunters. lol
Now as for bad experiences, I have to say I’m in an awesome guild so I haven’t run into it either. The few times I have had any negative comments in raids I’ve been able to shut them down with either my own Recount scores or pointing out that since no one died and we successfully downed the boss something must be going right.
But really, Pike who could ever say a derogatory comment about you.
Haha, you flatter me, Brig
If three data points can produce a trend, then something tells me it’s just going full circle. In Vanilla, BM was derided; in BC, MM/SV were at the bottom; in Wrath, BM is the low man again; and maybe in Cataclysm BM will blow everything away. Personally, I tell hunters asking for advice on entering the PvE scene that BM is pretty decent if you are comfortable with it. However, I really don’t see the same stigma against the spec that existed against MM in BC. Those were very dark days, and I think the hunter community has collected itself since then. Though, I think some of the attitude you are seeing isn’t necessarily a hunter thing, but a “everyone in WoW has become a bit more of a pompous asshole” bit. Windpaw over at Shock and Paw did an excellent write up on the overall attitudes of raiders lately.
I’m not sure we’re seeing a true trend here. But that’s just my perception maybe. Things aren’t really “Full circle” as we’re seeing something that tends to happen near the later part of an expansion. Now that might be a trend.
Also, though I respect your opinion, I have to disagree with the thought that what is happening today to BM players isn’t as bad as MM during Burning Crusade. During that time you had mostly a single class, hunters, blasting fellow hunters for their spec choice.
However, if you managed to get into a group or a Raid as MM then you typically could remain. The reason is it was all based on performance. Did the bosses go down? Was everyone happy and successful? If those were yes then you could continue. True, there were competitive min/max raiders then that would blast you for not being BM, but in the end it was possible to run PUGs and groups.
Today we’re seeing a much different dynamic. Random PUGs today are using GearScore and Spec checks to determine if they will be successful before even starting. So if you’re BM you’ll probably get a Vote to Kick before they move ahead and try. Also, the amount of player focus on max-DPS elitism seems to be greater today than a year ago. Of course this might all be my perception.
Last thing, thanks for the link. I’ll go check it out. It sounds like something that maybe we should highlight throughout the community.
Indeed, we are all limited by our own experiences. I don’t recall a singular incident of hatred towards BM since 3.0 came out, but then again, I do not read the official forums and I am selective about what forum topics on certain websites I do read. My experiences are restricted to trade, PUGs, the select blogs and websites I do read, and the two guilds I have been in since Wrath was released. And like I said, I haven’t witnessed animosity towards BM. The more progressive of the two guilds I was in even encouraged me to try BM for a week when we were lacking a ret pally, and I kept it as my second spec for awhile as a precaution.
Additionally, the vast number of 5-mans PUGs I have participated in have never gone through the effort to make sure each member is adequate in gear – each one has been a rush to get the instance done and over with. Ten mans and 25mans may be a different story, but I will ask a leader of a GDKP run if they would consider allowing a BM hunter in if his gear and experience were on par with all the other participants. I have about 95% confidence that he would say ‘yes’.
What you are comparing is the ability to consider player by his gear score/achievements alone pre-run, as opposed to his spec alone. Are you positive BM hunters are being booted for their spec alone, or their spec plus gear score? If it is the former, then perhaps there is a severe bias against the talent tree to rival the MM treatment in BC. However, if it is the latter, then that’s a whole different issue wrapped up in the elitism that has taken over in compensation for the new raiding system.
It seems that it’s both. There are those that are being booted purely for their spec. And then there are those that are being booted for their GearScore. However, they have the said GearScore because they run as BM and having a difficult time finding groups.
There are guilds and players that understand how to balance a raid group around their players specs and skills. These tend to accept “off-spec” players. Like when you and Rilgon would run MM in BC. I’m not talking about those. I’m talking about the ones that don’t care to put the effort into it and would rather let the pundits dictate who they should allow to run with them.
I still would appreciate what you find out though.
Thx for responding.
@TheSpiritBeast:
“I was actually a little disappointed that the first Scattered shot post today on WoW.com essentially wrote off BM spec in the first couple paragraphs without any real support to back it up.”
Are you referring to this:
“Sadly it’s not enough to put BM up into the SV/MM raid dps range, but it’s something.”
If so, I mean, it’s just an uncontroversial fact that, other things (e.g. gear level, skill) being equal, BM does less dps in a raid than SV/MM. I haven’t heard anyone argue that BM is in the same range, only that having the maximum possible dps isn’t the *only* criteria by which a player should make his decisions on his toon, or the only criteria by which a raider should be judged. Frostheim didn’t say anything one way or the other on that (though on his own blog he’s been very clear that he thinks hunters should always strive to maximize dps).
Your correct, Frost didn’t go any further than to state a fact that BM does not equal MM or SV in raid performance.
However, even simple statements such as this will be taken as passive support for not allowing BM hunters to raid. This is even more apparent when you have people with a strong following like Frost proclaiming such ideals.
I want to be clear, it’s not Frost’s fault that this happens. It’s just the normal reaction of the WoW Community.
As I stated in my other comment, I’ve paired up all three of my hunters against similarly geared MM/surv hunters and basically always out DPS them. Pugs and guild raids, 10 mans and 25mans, BM has the potential to do a LOT of damage. Even heroics, I’ll typically triple box in the LFG system and constantly get people new kill speed records. BM is not a bad spec, I just think too many people have their heads buried in inaccurate spreadsheets. Give me three levels of gear: 4400 gear score, 4700 gear score, 5k+ gear score (for the sake of not going into each piece of gear), and put a MM, surv, and BM hunter against each other. The BM hunter, when played properly and with the right spec, WILL out dps the others in every scenario. The problem is the majority of BM hunters I’ve seen don’t even have enough sense NOT to put 2/2 to spirit bond (/facepalm), and most MM/surv hunters trust fan-written spreadsheets so much that they hold it up as THE resource for determining maximum DPS. Using my PHP/.NET analogy earlier, BM really would be the “PHP” of the web world, because there’s so much room to be bad at it you really do see some of the best and the worst using it. You could level from 1-80 specced BM and never realize your build is bad for raids because your pet keeps aggro off you the whole damn time (just like you could write awful, spaghetti garbage code that still works because of PHP’s leniency with new users).
I’m going to try to put some interesting articles together that delve further into the MM/surv comparison with BM once I have a bit more time (and a more reliable connection) to do some tests with some very good MM/surv hunters on my server in the next couple weeks.
I want to say that I like this article, but I feel that you could take it a step further and be a bit bold by saying that if you’re out for pro-max DPS, BM is STILL a viable option, not just for showing up and filling a raid slot. BM has the absolute potential to hold the #1 spot in raid DPS.
Hmm. I see your point and agree that it “could” be the #1 Spot and in your cases have proven it.
But just remember though, when all things are equal it becomes a numbers game. This is when you see that MM > BM. But only in pure numbers.
Also, your argument about a well played BM hunter can outplay and outdps a Marks hunter was often cited in the BC days. And even then it was proven time and time again that when you remove skill, then the numbers always side one way or the other.
You are right though, maybe I could’ve taken a stronger position, but I’d rather have the data to back up my claims than just self run scenarios. Check back, I’m sure you’ll see more posts supporting your stance.
As I stated in my other comment, I’ve paired up all three of my hunters against similarly geared MM/surv hunters and basically always out DPS them.
Anecdotal evidence is both anecdotal and useless in any meaningful comparison.
BM is not nearly as reliant on buffs and debuffs as MM or SV is. BM is infinitely more forgiving of poor gear than MM is. BM loses little DPS to latency or graphical slowdown compared to MM or SV, since so little of the DPS is from the Hunter. BM has to do just as much pet management as MM or SV, and don’t you dare tell me that we don’t, as letting a good 1500 DPS die because I’m lazy is pure idiocy.
BM is mathematically inferior to MM or SV at ToC and ICC levels of gear (and probably is at even an Ulduar level, too). Is this right? Hell no it’s not, but Blizzard has, to date, been unable to make BM either terrible or grossly overpowered, and their unwillingness to decouple PVE from PVP doesn’t help a bit. Will they resolve this in Cataclysm? This remains to be seen. But claiming “I beat MM/SV Hunters, so BM is good!” is an idiotic fallacy that has persisted since BC when it was MM Hunters saying it towards BM Hunters.
I called them out for their bullshit, too, and I was on the receiving end of the hatred then. Misinformation is the most cardinal of sins, and I’ll call anyone out on it, even one of “my own”.
Tsk. Tsk Rilgon. Come now, there’s no reason to be so harsh and get all Big and Blue and nom a fellow’s hunter’s face off.
You’re correct. Mathmatically BM doesn’t do the same damage as MM or SV. But saying words like “inferior” or calling people “idiots” are not something we do here at the Lodge.
Feel free to disagree, feel free to point out someone’s error’s and misinformation, but please don’t just flame someone with raging comments because their wrong. Give constructive feedback and then we can move on.
Thanks.
Someone who admits to willingly triple-boxing characters in the dungeon finder really doesn’t seem like someone who has the consideration of others at heart, so…
I guess Blizzard must be using some “bad math” in-game then
As for triple boxing, I actually just enjoy running heroics and PvPing with essentially a super powered version of my character, since I can play it the exact same way but I’m doing basically 3x the damage. It’s a hell of a lot of fun, and creates whole new challenges and excitement for crowd control/keeping characters alive, reminding me almost of the micromanagement I used to enjoy so much when I played StarCraft.
Plus, the added benefit is being able to fill an extra DPS slot with a high DPS character in a pinch (as I have raided a lot with two characters), or being able to raid with each character individually giving me three times the raiding goodness each week while still playing the same hunter I love playing so much.
And don’t get me started about how easy it is to farm gold fishing with three characters. Easy mode
Oh yeah, and the having three spirit beasts attack stuff at once is really cool as well. In fact, there are a lot of great reasons to triple box. Plus I’ve never had the tank or healer feel like I was inconsiderate in the LFG system, I’m pretty sure
As for Rilgon getting out of hand, I GET his blog, he’s supposed to be angry, that’s his thing. He’s the Lewis Black of hunters, without the cleverly thought out scenarios, comedic timing or punchlines, so of course any reaction he has to anything is going to be an intentional overreaction.
The fact is, I realize that the evidence I’ve provided here is anecdotal, but thus far it’s been the same for old Rilgon here (saying “Mathemtically it doesn’t do the same damage” really doesn’t mean anything without some well written formulas taking into account the vast number of variables that can affect damage in-game). If he’s interested in “calling me out,” I wanted to let everyone know that I’m going to be inviting a lot of confident MM and survival hunters to various raids once I’ve fixed my temporarily unstable connection, for some live demonstrations and tests. I’m willing to put my money where my mouth is, and I look forward to seeing any MM/surv hunters try to out DPS my current build/setup with similarly (or even better geared) characters, paired off against their closest of my three hunters. So Rilgon, since you seem to be so angrily against me, why not spend $25 to transfer to the Gurubashi server to participate. I’d also be inviting anyone who participates in the DPS tests to write for thespiritbeast.com, as I want to eventually provide useful resources for all specs, regardless of which is currently on top for DPS.
I have to admit that the World of Warcraft community consists of some of the coolest and nicest people I’ve met online. In lineage 2, angry “hardcore” players like Rilgon were a dime a dozen, and finding legitimately nice people who simply enjoyed playing the game was a rarity. I look forward to interacting with a lot you in the future, because I’m having a blast working on this website and putting together new content. It’s just a hobby, but I’m really enjoying myself and look forward to continuing that.
I am going to have to test the getting kicked from PUGs issue this weekend. I have BM as a second spec along with Loque and a Core Hound as pets. I’m not going to take the core hound. His noise level would aggravate the group, so I’ll take my Loque and see what happens.
Will I be asked to switch specs or voted out immediately? It should be interesting.
It’ll be an interesting experiment. Especially if you’re in the newer instances. Keep in touch and let me know.
Here is the info. I used LFD the whole time. I was not questioned nor kicked at any time for a total of 10 runs. I do know I was inspected at least 3 times. I don’t change gear for specs. What I have is what I have. The lowest item I have is iLevel 200 boots from Heroic Nexus, I am a JC with 3 Dragon’s Eye gems equipped, and I am way over the hit cap right now.
Recount:
FOS – 3475.9
GUN – 3047.2
ToC – 3553.6
VH – 3044.7
NEX – 2823.3
HoS – 3174.2
HOL – 2379.5
OK – 2471.8
UK – 2532.2
UK – 3271.7
avg = 2977.41
The UK anomaly was due to holding back on the DPS to control my threat more due to what appeared to be a near fresh level 80 tank.
I make about 300 – 500 more DPS in my Marksmanship spec. I would expect such considering having access to Wild Quiver, Aimed Shot, Barrage, and Marked for Death.
I’ll be sharing this information on my blog as well.
Sometimes I’ll mix it when I triple box heroics with my spirit beast combination and bring the sampler (Loque, Skoll, Arcturis), or I’ll bring all the invisipets (Gondria, Arcturis, Arcturis), but I’ve found that in heroics, especially when the majority of the party is BM, it invokes more positive reactions like “that is so cool.” Most of the people playing heroics seem more open minded about any spec, since it really doesn’t take much to run them anyway.
As for raids, I’ve found that when they’re being run by a non-hunter spec, typically you’ll be left alone even if you’re sporting the obvious Loque, and more often than not if you’re using another one of the SBs non-hunters will ask where you got that pet. When it’s being run by a know-it-all MM/surv hunter, however, they’ll give you the third degree and potentially kick you without even seeing your DPS. That’s kind of what I see with the hunter community in general; a lot of people have preconceived notions and aren’t willing to give someone a chance to prove that they’ve mastered their spec. Understand that your pet is basically like a slightly weaker player in the raid, so when he’s got full raid buffs, coupled with you and your full raid buffs, you’re going to be doing a LOT of damage.
I love BM. I would love for it be right up there with Marksmanship and Survival in DPS. If anything good came from the nerfs way back in 3.0.8 it’d be it opened up a whole new perspective of the hunter for and now I also love MM. One day, hopefully all three specs will be very close to each other and I could switch back and forth without having to worry about being ’sub-par’.
True enough. Having people willing to change their perspective is a positive thing. Unfortunately, too many people took the same “philosophy” to their new spec, max-DPS or bust.
I’ve been BM since I rolled my Hunter and I love it. I won’t change just because someone harasses me about it (and they do, regularly). I won’t change just because someone thinks I should.
At the same time, I have plenty of people who are always sticking up for me and telling people to shut up and let me play what I want. I am also regularly beating other non-BM hunters who don’t know what they’re doing.
So. They can all just shut up and deal with it.
BM hunters aren’t alone tbh. I like to play a spec that, theoretically, is better with whatever gear I’m using. However, if I really don’t like a particular spec I might tend to avoid it. Generally I’m not a fan of BM, I prefer the playstyle of Survival and Marksman, but it’s not something I’m completely against trying either. I play a hunter not a Marksman
Lies and slander in your title, sir. “Equally” is the word you’re looking for. Not harder.
I don’t understand something. You mean people will kick you from a group if you are beast master spec? That has never happened to me. As far as I know, people don’t even inspect me. As long as I’m top dps, they could care less how I get there. As far as raids go, they simply instruct the hunters what they need to kill.